Discussion:
"Little Lad of the Tricks" - Patrick H Pearse
(too old to reply)
Gerry Doyle
2004-08-23 01:15:28 UTC
Permalink
It's funny, but after reading this a few times, all slagging aside, it's not
bad at all...

Little Lad of the Tricks

Little lad of the tricks,
Full well I know
That you have been in mischief:
Confess your fault truly.

I forgive you, child
Of the soft red mouth:
I will not condemn anyone
For a sin not understood.

Raise your comely head
Till I kiss your mouth:
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.

There is a fragrance in your kiss
That I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.

Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.

He who has my secrets
Is not fit to touch you:
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?

G
Sidheseeker
2004-08-23 01:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this a few times, all slagging aside, it's not
bad at all...
Little Lad of the Tricks
Little lad of the tricks,
Full well I know
Confess your fault truly.
I forgive you, child
I will not condemn anyone
For a sin not understood.
Raise your comely head
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
There is a fragrance in your kiss
That I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
I've read that about five times.. to be honest..
I'm not too sure how to comment on it..
other than to say.. it's not funny..







--
[Posted at boards.ie]
http://www.boards.ie/
Ireland's Bulletin Boards, News Groups, Chat Rooms
After Hours - Games - Technology - Work - For Sale
Jaden
2004-08-23 08:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sidheseeker
I've read that about five times.. to be honest..
I'm not too sure how to comment on it..
other than to say.. it's not funny..
Ah, it's not that bad. We look at this from a modern moral standpoint.
This kind of thing was far more acceptable turn of century, it just
looks "dated" now.
Gerry Doyle
2004-08-23 22:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaden
Post by Sidheseeker
I've read that about five times.. to be honest..
I'm not too sure how to comment on it..
other than to say.. it's not funny..
Ah, it's not that bad. We look at this from a modern moral standpoint.
This kind of thing was far more acceptable turn of century, it just
looks "dated" now.
I don't know where you have gotten that idea. You were saying the same in
another thread, but I think you'll find that at the time of writing that
homosexuality was anything but fondly looked upon, look what happened to
poor oul Oscar Wilde for instance...

Pearse himself was actually horrified when it was pointed out to him that
the poem had a, erm, certain capacity for misconstrual.

G
Jaden
2004-08-24 08:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerry Doyle
I don't know where you have gotten that idea. You were saying the same in
another thread, but I think you'll find that at the time of writing that
homosexuality was anything but fondly looked upon, look what happened to
poor oul Oscar Wilde for instance...
Homosexuality was indeed frowned upon, no doubt. There can be little
doubt that the homoerotic nature of some of Pearse's poetry was not
conscious or deliberate. He didn't mean for it to be so.

Pearse (and Wilde) both believed in the Greek concept of the Man-Boy
relationship. This was a relationship based on learning and mutual
respect, a very nurturing one. With close relationships, there will
always be a physical aspect. This is what Pearse was aluding to in his
poetry.
Post by Gerry Doyle
Pearse himself was actually horrified when it was pointed out to him that
the poem had a, erm, certain capacity for misconstrual.
I don't blame him. Something like that could have ruined a man.
Falcon
2004-08-24 09:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaden
Post by Gerry Doyle
I don't know where you have gotten that idea. You were saying the same in
another thread, but I think you'll find that at the time of writing that
homosexuality was anything but fondly looked upon, look what happened to
poor oul Oscar Wilde for instance...
Homosexuality was indeed frowned upon, no doubt. There can be little
doubt that the homoerotic nature of some of Pearse's poetry was not
conscious or deliberate. He didn't mean for it to be so.
Pearse (and Wilde) both believed in the Greek concept of the Man-Boy
relationship. This was a relationship based on learning and mutual
respect, a very nurturing one. With close relationships, there will
always be a physical aspect. This is what Pearse was aluding to in his
poetry.
Hmm. Bugger me (ahem). I'm not sure that pointing out the similarities
between Wilde and Pearse was the best way to go.
--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"What will History say?"
"History, sir, will tell lies as usual."
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-24 16:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Falcon
Post by Jaden
Post by Gerry Doyle
I don't know where you have gotten that idea. You were saying the same
in
Post by Jaden
Post by Gerry Doyle
another thread, but I think you'll find that at the time of writing that
homosexuality was anything but fondly looked upon, look what happened to
poor oul Oscar Wilde for instance...
Homosexuality was indeed frowned upon, no doubt. There can be little
doubt that the homoerotic nature of some of Pearse's poetry was not
conscious or deliberate. He didn't mean for it to be so.
Pearse (and Wilde) both believed in the Greek concept of the Man-Boy
relationship. This was a relationship based on learning and mutual
respect, a very nurturing one. With close relationships, there will
always be a physical aspect. This is what Pearse was aluding to in his
poetry.
Hmm. Bugger me (ahem). I'm not sure that pointing out the similarities
between Wilde and Pearse was the best way to go.
Took the words out of my mouth... or the keys out of my finger stabs or
something like that...

Ray
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans-Joachim Maximilian
2004-08-26 03:51:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerry Doyle
Post by Jaden
Post by Sidheseeker
I've read that about five times.. to be honest..
I'm not too sure how to comment on it..
other than to say.. it's not funny..
Ah, it's not that bad. We look at this from a modern moral standpoint.
This kind of thing was far more acceptable turn of century, it just
looks "dated" now.
I don't know where you have gotten that idea. You were saying the same in
another thread, but I think you'll find that at the time of writing that
homosexuality was anything but fondly looked upon, look what happened to
poor oul Oscar Wilde for instance...
Pearse himself was actually horrified when it was pointed out to him that
the poem had a, erm, certain capacity for misconstrual.
G
That sort of thing was fairly popular.
Falcon
2004-08-23 08:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this a few times, all slagging aside, it's not
bad at all...
You'll start Ray off again; and it will be ALL YOUR FAULT.
--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"What will History say?"
"History, sir, will tell lies as usual."
Michael O'Neill
2004-08-23 09:43:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Falcon
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this a few times, all slagging aside, it's
not
Post by Gerry Doyle
bad at all...
You'll start Ray off again; and it will be ALL YOUR FAULT.
<snip>

Again???

He stopped???

M.
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-23 17:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Falcon
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this a few times, all slagging aside, it's
not
Post by Gerry Doyle
bad at all...
You'll start Ray off again; and it will be ALL YOUR FAULT.
Too Late!

Ray
(Pearse fan!)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael O'Neill
2004-08-23 07:53:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this
a few times, all slagging aside, it's not
bad at all...
Little Lad of the Tricks
Little lad of the tricks,
Full well I know
Confess your fault truly.
I forgive you, child
I will not condemn anyone
For a sin not understood.
Raise your comely head
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
There is a fragrance in your kiss
That I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
G
Its certainly evocative, but it gives me the shivers.

It reads like the stream-of-consciousness of a pedophile.

M.
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-23 17:22:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this
a few times, all slagging aside, it's not
bad at all...
Little Lad of the Tricks
Little lad of the tricks,
Full well I know
Confess your fault truly.
I forgive you, child
I will not condemn anyone
For a sin not understood.
Raise your comely head
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
There is a fragrance in your kiss
That I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
G
Its certainly evocative, but it gives me the shivers.
It reads like the stream-of-consciousness of a pedophile.
M.
Only in the mind of those that look to see it that way...

In other words... splinter/log/eye

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gerry Doyle
2004-08-23 23:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael O'Neill
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this
a few times, all slagging aside, it's not
bad at all...
Little Lad of the Tricks
Little lad of the tricks,
Full well I know
Confess your fault truly.
I forgive you, child
I will not condemn anyone
For a sin not understood.
Raise your comely head
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
There is a fragrance in your kiss
That I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
G
Its certainly evocative, but it gives me the shivers.
It reads like the stream-of-consciousness of a pedophile.
I suppose it does, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he was
concious of it himself, he seems to have written in all innocence. If it
were otherwise he'd hardly have had the poem published for all to see?

G
Post by Michael O'Neill
M.
michael adams
2004-08-23 09:49:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this a few times, all
slagging aside, it's not bad at all...
Little Lad of the Tricks
Little lad of the tricks,
Full well I know
Confess your fault truly.
I forgive you, child
I will not condemn anyone
For a sin not understood.
Raise your comely head
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
________________________________________________________


Sorry Gerry. Taking Pearse out of context is one thing,
and fair enough there's scope for misunderstanding.

But adults kissing children on the mouth? Or the other
stuff as reproduced below.

Or even wanting to then, now, whenever. Come on now !

This is indeed as it's printed in RDE's book - or near
enough anyway. Although you've printed the full version
I presume, rather than just the first 4 verses as appear
there.

If I didn't know better I'd suspect that some subtle
Casement Diaries type alterations were made to the text of
this poem at some point, by someone with the intention if
smearing Pearse.

RDE explains how the Irish version was first published in the
Dec 1909 edition of Macoaoh and thus gives attributions for
that. And that Pearse produced the English version a few years
later. But she gives no specific reference for these. She
explains about the concerns of McDonagh etc at the time -
but these may have been concerned about the general tenor
of the poem without there being any specific reference to
kisses on the mouth etc.

While some people on the NewsGroup such as Mr Cunningham
are apparently quite happy to have their agenda set for
them by British Intelligence, even if it was 80 years ago,
in respect of the Casement Diaries at least, others may
be inclined to take a more sceptical approach to such
matters.



michael adams

_________________________________________________________
Post by Gerry Doyle
There is a fragrance in your kiss
That I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
G
__________________________________________
David H
2004-08-23 21:14:38 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:49:50 +0100, "michael adams"
Post by michael adams
This is indeed as it's printed in RDE's book - or near
enough anyway. Although you've printed the full version
I presume, rather than just the first 4 verses as appear
there.
If I didn't know better I'd suspect that some subtle
Casement Diaries type alterations were made to the text of
this poem at some point, by someone with the intention if
smearing Pearse.
However, you do know better, so you don't suspect it...
Post by michael adams
RDE explains how the Irish version was first published in the
Dec 1909 edition of Macoaoh and thus gives attributions for
that. And that Pearse produced the English version a few years
later. But she gives no specific reference for these. She
explains about the concerns of McDonagh etc at the time -
but these may have been concerned about the general tenor
of the poem without there being any specific reference to
kisses on the mouth etc.
While some people on the NewsGroup such as Mr Cunningham
are apparently quite happy to have their agenda set for
them by British Intelligence, even if it was 80 years ago,
in respect of the Casement Diaries at least, others may
be inclined to take a more sceptical approach to such
matters.
People are still arguing over whether the Casement diaries
were genuine. SFAIK academic opinion has at last come out
strongly in favour of their being genuine.

But that has nothing to do with the Pearse poem. It's
genuine. It was printed before 1916, while Pearse was
alive, and when Pearse was a minor figure. Argue about
what it means, if you must.

David H
--
abend
michael adams
2004-08-24 07:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
People are still arguing over whether the Casement diaries
were genuine. SFAIK academic opinion has at last come out
strongly in favour of their being genuine.
..

While the consensus of opinion, is that forgeries, including
supposedly damning supporting evidence, concocted by British
Intelligence over 80 years ago - are more than capable
of fooling present day academics. Because that is precisely
what they were intended to do.

Another interesting feature of the Casement Diaries, unlike
less controversial material which is subject to periodic close
forensic examination for the purposes of authentication,
is the regulrity with which the material has "disappeared"
for long periods while in the custody of the British.

There's no real authenticated audit trail in other words.

...
Post by David H
But that has nothing to do with the Pearse poem. It's
genuine. It was printed before 1916,
while Pearse was
alive, and when Pearse was a minor figure. Argue about
what it means, if you must.
...

No David we only argue about the "meaning" after we've
established the authenticity of the text.

Are you definitly stating that the poem was originally
published in this precise form ?

Where exactly ? Do you have a reference please ?

Or are you merely supposing that a poem of this Title was
published somewhere, sometime prior to 1916, er you're not
quite sure where, or when, but er, .....that's it ?


Nice to see all the "experts" being drawn into the
debate, anyway.


michael adams

...
Post by David H
David H
--
abend
Falcon
2004-08-24 09:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by michael adams
Post by David H
People are still arguing over whether the Casement diaries
were genuine. SFAIK academic opinion has at last come out
strongly in favour of their being genuine.
..
While the consensus of opinion, is that forgeries, including
supposedly damning supporting evidence, concocted by British
Intelligence over 80 years ago - are more than capable
of fooling present day academics. Because that is precisely
what they were intended to do. [...]
If you think for one minute that anyone gives a micro-fuck about what's in
them, or whether they are genuine or not, you're even more paranoid than I
thought. Nice to see the bet-hedging going on about the poem by the way, now
that you've taken a closer look. Is it genuine, or yet another evil-Brit
plot to discredit a true patriot? Who knows? Will Ray ever really catch on
to why David suggested a Pearse tribute page on his website? Probably not.

Anyway, we wouldn't want to be too closely associated with anything
questionable, would we Micky?

Ah ... the twists and turns of Irish "culture"; don't you just love it?
--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"What will History say?"
"History, sir, will tell lies as usual."
michael adams
2004-08-24 09:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Post by David H
People are still arguing over whether the Casement diaries
were genuine. SFAIK academic opinion has at last come out
strongly in favour of their being genuine.
..
While the consensus of opinion, is that forgeries, including
supposedly damning supporting evidence, concocted by British
Intelligence over 80 years ago - are more than capable
of fooling present day academics. Because that is precisely
what they were intended to do. [...]
If you think for one minute that anyone gives a micro-fuck about
what's in them, or whether they are genuine or not, you're even
more paranoid than I thought.
...

So why are they always re-examining them then ?

Or are you suggesting that I'm imagining that, as well then ?

What happens is that the Diaries are constantly being re-examined
in the light of new forensic techniques, after having been
conveniently "lost" for a few months beforehand. We're not
talking here, about something that's been sitting in a glass
case, continuously in full public view since 1916, you know.

I realised early on, that you weren't exactly on the "Inside
Track" as far as Intelligence matters were concerned Budgie.
Both in terms either of actual knowledge and familiarity with
the material, or of actual ability. And I regret to say that
the ensuing interval has only gone to conform my initial
suspicions about you.

...
Post by Falcon
Nice to see the bet-hedging going on about the poem by the way,
now that you've taken a closer look. Is it genuine, or yet another
evil-Brit plot to discredit a true patriot? Who knows? Will Ray
ever really catch on to why David suggested a Pearse tribute page
on his website? Probably not.
...

No Budgie. What you mean is, will whoever it is who's sitting there in
Lisburn, in the next office to you quite possibly, who's job it is
to post as "Ray", supposedly flooding this NewsGroup with republican
propoganda from California, decide to pretend to catch on or not.

Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?

How you're always so keen to answer all of Ray's republican posts,
and point out all his mistakes, for the benefit of the NewsGroup.

Anyone would think the two of you were doing it on purpose.

Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?

That the two biggest mates on this NewsGroup, and up to a while ago
the most prolific posters to this NewsGroup by far, Howard and Ray
were on such diametrically opposites sides of the fence politically ?
And yet they were the two posters who were always in such a hurry
to tell the NewsGroup all about themselves with their personal
websites and so on.

Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?

...
Post by Falcon
Ah ... the twists and turns of Irish "culture"; don't you
just love it?
...

Well you certainly seem to, for some strange reason.

Given that you've supposedly had no connection with the place
for over ten years now.

Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?


michael adams
be the best
Post by Falcon
--
Thiepval Barracks:Lisburn
Falcon
2004-08-24 11:39:56 UTC
Permalink
"michael adams" <***@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message news:***@uni-berlin.de...
[...]
Post by michael adams
So why are they always re-examining them then ?
Who is "they" Michael?
Post by michael adams
Or are you suggesting that I'm imagining that, as well then ?
What happens is that the Diaries are constantly being re-examined
in the light of new forensic techniques, after having been
conveniently "lost" for a few months beforehand. We're not
talking here, about something that's been sitting in a glass
case, continuously in full public view since 1916, you know.
I realised early on, that you weren't exactly on the "Inside
Track" as far as Intelligence matters were concerned Budgie. [...]
I'm neither concerned with paranoid conspiracy theories nor your opinion of
me.
Post by michael adams
Post by Falcon
Nice to see the bet-hedging going on about the poem by the way,
now that you've taken a closer look. Is it genuine, or yet another
evil-Brit plot to discredit a true patriot? Who knows? Will Ray
ever really catch on to why David suggested a Pearse tribute page
on his website? Probably not.
No Budgie. What you mean is, will whoever it is who's sitting there in
Lisburn, in the next office to you quite possibly, who's job it is
to post as "Ray", supposedly flooding this NewsGroup with republican
propoganda from California, decide to pretend to catch on or not.[...]
Oh dear; you've really lost the plot, haven't you Michael?
--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"What will History say?"
"History, sir, will tell lies as usual."
michael adams
2004-08-24 11:28:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Falcon
[...]
Post by michael adams
So why are they always re-examining them then ?
Who is "they" Michael?
...

British Intelligence Stooges. Who else?

Here are the latest in a long line

BBC Website

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/protest_reform/casement_01.sht
ml

<quote>

For decades, mystery has surrounded the Black Diaries of
Roger Casement, which exposed him as a homosexual. Theories
of forgery have been widespread, but now conclusive forensic
testing finally reveals the truth.

</quote>

They then present 6 pages of blather about all these doubts
that surround the Diaries authenticity - so as to appear
fair minded

And then comes the crunch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/protest_reform/casement_05.sht
ml

<quote>

Forensic testing
On 12th March 2002 the results of the first ever fully independent
forensic examination of the Black Diaries were announced at a press
conference in London. The examination was carried out by Dr Audrey
Giles, an internationally respected figure in the field of document
forensics. It was commissioned by Professor Bill McCormack of
Goldsmiths College, London, and jointly funded by the BBC and RTE.
The verdict was as follows:

The unequivocal and confident conclusion which the Giles Document
Laboratory has reached is that each of the five documents
collectively known as the Black Diaries is exclusively the work
of Roger Casement's hand, without any reason to suspect either
forgery or interpolation by any other hand. The Diaries are
genuine throughout and in each instance.

</quote>

I quote -

"Without any reason to suspect either forgery....."

Despite the fact that the Diaries were first produced, and have
been in the possession of British Intelligence for most of the
time since their initial discovery !

Giles and McCormack are simply the latest in a long line of Patsies,
Dupes, and Stooges, set up by British Intelligence to tell the story
the Brits want to hear told.

And ably aided and assisted in this case by West Brit RTE !

...
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Or are you suggesting that I'm imagining that, as well then ?
What happens is that the Diaries are constantly being re-examined
in the light of new forensic techniques, after having been
conveniently "lost" for a few months beforehand. We're not
talking here, about something that's been sitting in a glass
case, continuously in full public view since 1916, you know.
I realised early on, that you weren't exactly on the "Inside
Track" as far as Intelligence matters were concerned Budgie. [...]
I'm neither concerned with paranoid conspiracy theories nor
your opinion of me.
...

Of coures you're not. You're merely doing your job.

We already know that.

It would be rather strange if you were really, wouldn't it?

...
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Post by Falcon
Nice to see the bet-hedging going on about the poem by the way,
now that you've taken a closer look. Is it genuine, or yet another
evil-Brit plot to discredit a true patriot? Who knows? Will Ray
ever really catch on to why David suggested a Pearse tribute page
on his website? Probably not.
No Budgie. What you mean is, will whoever it is who's sitting there in
Lisburn, in the next office to you quite possibly, who's job it is
to post as "Ray", supposedly flooding this NewsGroup with republican
propoganda from California, decide to pretend to catch on or not.[...]
Oh dear; you've really lost the plot, haven't you Michael?
...

That's certainly the best strategy as an immediate response.

A straightforward denial, rather than a detailed rebuttal.

Accompanied by the customary smear.

Its the same all the way down.

All the way from no.10 down to the likes of you - pumping out
your daily doses of poison.




michael adams
be the best
Post by Falcon
--
Still Theipval Barracks:Lisburn
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-24 16:25:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:21:36 +0100, "michael adams"
Post by michael adams
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Post by David H
People are still arguing over whether the Casement diaries
were genuine. SFAIK academic opinion has at last come out
strongly in favour of their being genuine.
..
While the consensus of opinion, is that forgeries, including
supposedly damning supporting evidence, concocted by British
Intelligence over 80 years ago - are more than capable
of fooling present day academics. Because that is precisely
what they were intended to do. [...]
If you think for one minute that anyone gives a micro-fuck about
what's in them, or whether they are genuine or not, you're even
more paranoid than I thought.
...
So why are they always re-examining them then ?
Or are you suggesting that I'm imagining that, as well then ?
What happens is that the Diaries are constantly being re-examined
in the light of new forensic techniques, after having been
conveniently "lost" for a few months beforehand. We're not
talking here, about something that's been sitting in a glass
case, continuously in full public view since 1916, you know.
I realised early on, that you weren't exactly on the "Inside
Track" as far as Intelligence matters were concerned Budgie.
Both in terms either of actual knowledge and familiarity with
the material, or of actual ability. And I regret to say that
the ensuing interval has only gone to conform my initial
suspicions about you.
...
Post by Falcon
Nice to see the bet-hedging going on about the poem by the way,
now that you've taken a closer look. Is it genuine, or yet another
evil-Brit plot to discredit a true patriot? Who knows? Will Ray
ever really catch on to why David suggested a Pearse tribute page
on his website? Probably not.
...
No Budgie. What you mean is, will whoever it is who's sitting there in
Lisburn, in the next office to you quite possibly, who's job it is
to post as "Ray", supposedly flooding this NewsGroup with republican
propoganda from California, decide to pretend to catch on or not.
Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?
How you're always so keen to answer all of Ray's republican posts,
and point out all his mistakes, for the benefit of the NewsGroup.
Anyone would think the two of you were doing it on purpose.
Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?
That the two biggest mates on this NewsGroup, and up to a while ago
the most prolific posters to this NewsGroup by far, Howard and Ray
were on such diametrically opposites sides of the fence politically ?
And yet they were the two posters who were always in such a hurry
to tell the NewsGroup all about themselves with their personal
websites and so on.
Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?
...
Post by Falcon
Ah ... the twists and turns of Irish "culture"; don't you
just love it?
...
Well you certainly seem to, for some strange reason.
Given that you've supposedly had no connection with the place
for over ten years now.
Funny that, isn't it Budgie ?
michael adams
be the best
Post by Falcon
--
Thiepval Barracks:Lisburn
Holy MacJesus above in Scotland! With posts like that is it any wonder
nobody takes Adams' posts seriously anymore!!

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-24 16:25:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Post by David H
People are still arguing over whether the Casement diaries
were genuine. SFAIK academic opinion has at last come out
strongly in favour of their being genuine.
..
While the consensus of opinion, is that forgeries, including
supposedly damning supporting evidence, concocted by British
Intelligence over 80 years ago - are more than capable
of fooling present day academics. Because that is precisely
what they were intended to do. [...]
If you think for one minute that anyone gives a micro-fuck about what's in
them, or whether they are genuine or not, you're even more paranoid than I
thought. Nice to see the bet-hedging going on about the poem by the way, now
that you've taken a closer look. Is it genuine, or yet another evil-Brit
plot to discredit a true patriot? Who knows?
Will Ray ever really catch on
to why David suggested a Pearse tribute page on his website? Probably not.
Care to enlighten me then Falcon (serious)?

Ray
Post by Falcon
Anyway, we wouldn't want to be too closely associated with anything
questionable, would we Micky?
Ah ... the twists and turns of Irish "culture"; don't you just love it?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David H
2004-08-24 20:13:13 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:58:29 +0100, "michael adams"
Post by michael adams
Post by David H
People are still arguing over whether the Casement diaries
were genuine. SFAIK academic opinion has at last come out
strongly in favour of their being genuine.
While the consensus of opinion, is that forgeries, including
supposedly damning supporting evidence, concocted by British
Intelligence over 80 years ago - are more than capable
of fooling present day academics. Because that is precisely
what they were intended to do.
What makes academics immune to ordinary opinion?
And where is your consensus? I think you must move in
small circles. Very, very small circles.
Post by michael adams
Another interesting feature of the Casement Diaries, unlike
less controversial material which is subject to periodic close
forensic examination for the purposes of authentication,
is the regulrity with which the material has "disappeared"
for long periods while in the custody of the British.
There's no real authenticated audit trail in other words.
http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ExternalRequest.asp?RequestReference=ri2069

Excerpts from his diaries were being circulated during summer 1916.
They became totally irrelevant to the Brits in practice by 1918.
What's your date for the extensive, masterful, future proof
forging effort?
Post by michael adams
Post by David H
But that has nothing to do with the Pearse poem. It's
genuine. It was printed before 1916,
while Pearse was
alive, and when Pearse was a minor figure. Argue about
what it means, if you must.
No David we only argue about the "meaning" after we've
established the authenticity of the text.
Well, what you said was:
"RDE explains how the Irish version was first published in the
Dec 1909 edition of Macoaoh and thus gives attributions for
that."

That was years before the Easter Rising. Are you suggesting
that the Brits have been mis-translating it again and again ever
since?
Post by michael adams
Are you definitly stating that the poem was originally
published in this precise form ?
Well, you can start here, if you don't like the quoted version
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/E950004-009/
It wasn't all done in the dark ages. People kept records
in the early years of the century too.
Post by michael adams
Where exactly ? Do you have a reference please ?
Or are you merely supposing that a poem of this Title was
published somewhere, sometime prior to 1916, er you're not
quite sure where, or when, but er, .....that's it ?
Whereas you reckon it never happened?
Post by michael adams
Nice to see all the "experts" being drawn into the
debate, anyway.
It's time to go, Michael. Come back when you have
changed your name. You're finished here for now...

David H
--
abend
OldWiseMan
2004-08-24 21:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
I think you must move in
small circles. Very, very small circles.
Hopefully ever diminishing ones so he eventually disappears up his own
asshole :)
michael adams
2004-08-25 07:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:58:29 +0100, "michael adams"
< extensive and highly selective anti-obfuscation snippage througout >
Post by David H
Post by michael adams
There's no real authenticated audit trail in other words.
http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ExternalRequest.asp?RequestReference=ri2069
Excerpts from his diaries were being circulated during summer 1916.
They became totally irrelevant to the Brits in practice by 1918.
What's your date for the extensive, masterful, future proof
forging effort?
...

So why did the British Home Office retain the Diaries, and
even deny their very existence for a time?

According to the BBC website anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/protest_reform/casement_01.sht
ml

After Casement's death the diaries were retained by the Home
Office and held in conditions of extraordinary secrecy, which
only added to the atmosphere of mistrust.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/protest_reform/casement_03.sht
ml


1916 headline about Casement's capture Casement's first biographer,
Denis Gwynn, was frustrated in his efforts to investigate the issue.
The Home Office refused to confirm that the diaries even existed.


And then from your source

http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ExternalRequest.asp?RequestReference=ri2069

<quote>

The Metropolitan Police acquired the diaries from Casement's
former lodgings.

[Obviously! So they must be genuine! They never even invented the
idea of fabricating evidence until much later than 1916. ]

They were passed to the Home Office in 1925.

[So where were they, for the intervening 9 years ? And why the
decision to move them.]

They were transferred to the Public Record Office in 1959
and made publicly available in 1994

</quote>

...
Post by David H
Post by michael adams
No David we only argue about the "meaning" after we've
established the authenticity of the text.
"RDE explains how the Irish version was first published in the
Dec 1909 edition of Macoaoh and thus gives attributions for
that."
That was years before the Easter Rising. Are you suggesting
that the Brits have been mis-translating it again and again ever
since?
...

No David. It only need ever have been mistranslated the once.

...
Post by David H
Post by michael adams
Are you definitly stating that the poem was originally
published in this precise form ?
Well, you can start here, if you don't like the quoted version
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/E950004-009/
It wasn't all done in the dark ages. People kept records
in the early years of the century too.
...

I suggest you read your own references David

<quote>

Background details and bibliographic information

The edition used in the digital edition.
Pádraic Pearse Little Lad of the Tricks in Plays Stories Poems
Dublin, Talbot Press, (1966) PAGES 316-317

</quote>

This is simply a scan of the Talbot Press edition
of 1966. No further information is given as to
the source of the text used in that edition

...
Post by David H
Post by michael adams
Where exactly ? Do you have a reference please ?
Or are you merely supposing that a poem of this Title was
published somewhere, sometime prior to 1916, er you're not
quite sure where, or when, but er, .....that's it ?
Whereas you reckon it never happened?
...

No.

But you're the one who appears certain of the authenticity
of this particular version.

I just wonder how that can be, that's all.

...
Post by David H
Post by michael adams
Nice to see all the "experts" being drawn into the
debate, anyway.
It's time to go, Michael. Come back when you have
changed your name. You're finished here for now...
...

What, and leave you free to concentrate on the easier targets ?

Forever taking the rise out of poor old Ray?

Oh yes, of course you'd rather I wasn't around.

You'd much rather not have difficult customers like me asking you
all these awkward questions. Wouldn't you eh David?

Just like your new best friend.

Middle Aged and Clearly Not Nearly as Wise As He Thinks He Is Man

A drowning rat, scurrying from one sinking ship to another!

He can smell failure from a mile away.

You're finished David, and this is the final confirmation.




michael adams

...
Post by David H
David H
--
abend
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-23 17:22:01 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 02:15:28 +0100, "Gerry Doyle"
Post by Gerry Doyle
It's funny, but after reading this a few times, all slagging aside, it's not
bad at all...
Little Lad of the Tricks
Little lad of the tricks,
Full well I know
Confess your fault truly.
I forgive you, child
I will not condemn anyone
For a sin not understood.
Raise your comely head
If either of us is the better of that
I am the better of it.
There is a fragrance in your kiss
That I have not found yet
In the kisses of women
Or in the honey of their bodies.
Lad of the grey eyes,
That flush in thy cheek
Would be white with dread of me
Could you read my secrets.
He who has my secrets
Is not that a pitiful thing,
Little lad of the tricks ?
G
It's lovely!

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David H
2004-08-23 21:18:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.

David H
--
abend
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-23 21:47:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
David H
Would it upset you if it were?

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David H
2004-08-23 22:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.

David H
--
abend
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-24 16:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.
David H
Define "well rounded"?

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David H
2004-08-24 19:51:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.
Define "well rounded"?
Well, your current set of sources just present him as an
ultra nationalistic zealot with a militaristic streak and
a persecution complex.

Showing his soppy side might help to make it clear
what made him tick.

David H
--
abend
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-25 18:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.
Define "well rounded"?
Well, your current set of sources just present him as an
ultra nationalistic zealot with a militaristic streak and
a persecution complex.
You misspelled "Great Irish Patrot"

Ray
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David H
2004-08-25 20:39:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.
Define "well rounded"?
Well, your current set of sources just present him as an
ultra nationalistic zealot with a militaristic streak and
a persecution complex.
You misspelled "Great Irish Patrot"
So did you.

But, as you never stop reminding us - one man's
freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

By the way - I don't regard patriotism - on it's own -
as a virtue. It needs to be matched by a respect for
the loyalities and identities of other people, or it's just
another - dangerous - type of bigotry.

David H
--
abend
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-25 21:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.
Define "well rounded"?
Well, your current set of sources just present him as an
ultra nationalistic zealot with a militaristic streak and
a persecution complex.
You misspelled "Great Irish Patrot"
So did you.
Patriot ... grrr... stupid spelling mistake -1 point for me... you taking
the time to point it out - priceless...
Post by David H
But, as you never stop reminding us - one man's
freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
By the way - I don't regard patriotism - on it's own -
as a virtue. It needs to be matched by a respect for
the loyalities and identities of other people, or it's just
another - dangerous - type of bigotry.
David H
Do you shine your PC badge daily or every hour?

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David H
2004-08-25 21:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.
Define "well rounded"?
Well, your current set of sources just present him as an
ultra nationalistic zealot with a militaristic streak and
a persecution complex.
You misspelled "Great Irish Patrot"
So did you.
Patriot ... grrr... stupid spelling mistake -1 point for me... you taking
the time to point it out - priceless...
Tssk. It wasn't any ordinary spelling flame. You were
the one who said "You mispelled" - then you got it
wrong yourself. That's ironic.
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
But, as you never stop reminding us - one man's
freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
By the way - I don't regard patriotism - on it's own -
as a virtue. It needs to be matched by a respect for
the loyalities and identities of other people, or it's just
another - dangerous - type of bigotry.
Do you shine your PC badge daily or every hour?
Surely you think political correctness would be
progress - from an unionist?

But actually I was saying what I felt, *and* putting
the boot in. That's hardly political correctness.

David H
--
abend
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-25 22:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
Would it upset you if it were?
Of course not. The poem may be key to
providing a well rounded view of Pearse's
personality. I wouldn't want to deny you the
opportunity to do that on your Pearse fan page.
Define "well rounded"?
Well, your current set of sources just present him as an
ultra nationalistic zealot with a militaristic streak and
a persecution complex.
You misspelled "Great Irish Patrot"
So did you.
Patriot ... grrr... stupid spelling mistake -1 point for me... you taking
the time to point it out - priceless...
Tssk. It wasn't any ordinary spelling flame. You were
the one who said "You mispelled" - then you got it
wrong yourself. That's ironic.
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by David H
But, as you never stop reminding us - one man's
freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
By the way - I don't regard patriotism - on it's own -
as a virtue. It needs to be matched by a respect for
the loyalities and identities of other people, or it's just
another - dangerous - type of bigotry.
Do you shine your PC badge daily or every hour?
Surely you think political correctness would be
progress - from an unionist?
I donno... depends...
Post by David H
But actually I was saying what I felt, *and* putting
the boot in. That's hardly political correctness.
David H
PC is the enemy of the Unionist as much as it is the Republican... they
want to wash us both way and recreate our history in the spirit of
revisionism... Neitgher side has anything to gain... and a lot to lose...
you know?

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
michael adams
2004-08-24 07:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
The more I read of his contributions to this NewsGroup, the more
convinced I become that this character is in fact a British plant.

Put on here solely to undermine credibility in republicanism.



michael adams

...
Post by David H
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
David H
--
abend
Falcon
2004-08-24 09:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by michael adams
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
The more I read of his contributions to this NewsGroup, the more
convinced I become that this character is in fact a British plant.
Put on here solely to undermine credibility in republicanism.
I used to say the same about Greg.
--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
"What will History say?"
"History, sir, will tell lies as usual."
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-24 16:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
The more I read of his contributions to this NewsGroup, the more
convinced I become that this character is in fact a British plant.
Put on here solely to undermine credibility in republicanism.
I used to say the same about Greg.
And ye are both wrong... About me anyway, I can't speak for Greg, he's more
then able to defend himself...

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans-Joachim Maximilian
2004-08-26 04:02:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
The more I read of his contributions to this NewsGroup, the more
convinced I become that this character is in fact a British plant.
Put on here solely to undermine credibility in republicanism.
I used to say the same about Greg.
And ye are both wrong... About me anyway, I can't speak for Greg, he's more
then able to defend himself...
Ray
Greig is too busy campaigning against the erosion of our built
heritage by mad-dog peasants developing property etc.

Greig was always the cricket playing anglophile.

He never pretended to be anything else. Well almost, other than being
handsome, exciting, attractive, wonderful etc.
An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-26 18:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hans-Joachim Maximilian
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
Post by Falcon
Post by michael adams
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
The more I read of his contributions to this NewsGroup, the more
convinced I become that this character is in fact a British plant.
Put on here solely to undermine credibility in republicanism.
I used to say the same about Greg.
And ye are both wrong... About me anyway, I can't speak for Greg, he's more
then able to defend himself...
Ray
Greig is too busy campaigning against the erosion of our built
heritage by mad-dog peasants developing property etc.
Greig was always the cricket playing anglophile.
He never pretended to be anything else. Well almost, other than being
handsome, exciting, attractive, wonderful etc.
And his list of virtues and goodness goes on and on for several volumes or
so he tells us! :-)

Ray

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An Mac Tíre Bán:
2004-08-24 16:25:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:58:40 +0100, "michael adams"
Post by michael adams
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
The more I read of his contributions to this NewsGroup, the more
convinced I become that this character is in fact a British plant.
Put on here solely to undermine credibility in republicanism.
I get accused of that every now and agan, then I get accused of being a high
up member of SF and at another time I was accused of being on the IRA army
council... Most sensible people just know that I'm me, just plain Ray,
not a SF shill, not a paid Brit agent set in place to cause distrust and
what have you...

Of course Adams would know that if he would bother to read my posts...

Ray
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let friends all turn against me!
Let foes say what they will!
For my heart is in my country,
And I love old Ireland still!!!
Email: ray-AT-eirefirst.com
Website: http://www.eirefirst.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans-Joachim Maximilian
2004-08-26 03:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by michael adams
Post by David H
Post by An Mac Tíre Bán:
It's lovely!
The more I read of his contributions to this NewsGroup, the more
convinced I become that this character is in fact a British plant.
Put on here solely to undermine credibility in republicanism.
The kind that put up 'no return to Stormont' posters one week and the
very next week are telling us how great it was that Stormont was back?


Things have moved on. It is not about republicanism. It is about
getting elected to things and running community groups and being SF.

It is about more gay marriage, gay adoption, etc. than about 1916.
Post by michael adams
michael adams
...
Post by David H
And you wish you had written it yourself? An item for the
Patrick H Pearse page on your eirefirst website, I expect.
David H
--
abend
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